Welcome to Episode 150 of the Think UDL podcast: Programmatic UDL in Professional Studies with Erin Lewis. Dr. Erin Lewis is the Director of Professional Studies at Appalachian State University and a trusted colleague on our newly opened Hickory campus. She is also one of the only women I actually feel short around since she and I are right around 6 feet tall and she can still rock the high heels that i gave up on in my youth! For that, and for many other ways she is a dynamo on our campus and for our university, she has attained hero status in my eyes. The professional Studies major is available to all students (traditional and non-traditional, in-person and online) at App State in Boone, Hickory and online. In this episode we will discuss the ways that this major and program have adopted many UDL design aspects to lower barriers for students both on the macro level to degree completion, and in the micro level in some of the courses that comprise the major. It is a discussion of how a university can lower barriers to learning without reducing rigor and by providing a path for learner agency to degree completion and student success. I think you’ll really enjoy listening to the success stories at the end of our discussion as well!

Resources

Connect with Dr. Erin Lewis on LinkedIn or her website erinmeachum.com

Learn more about App State’s Professional Studies Program 

Transcript

45:44

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Universal Design for Learning, Professional Studies, degree completion, learner agency, interdisciplinary program, flexible pathway, capstone internship, student success, UDL design, student barriers, online courses, reflective practice, executive functions, non-traditional students, career development.

SPEAKERS

Lillian Nave, Erin Lewis

Lillian Nave  00:02

Welcome to think UDL, the universal design for learning podcast where we hear from the people who are designing and implementing strategies with learner variability in mind. I’m your host, Lillian Nave, and I’m interested in not just what you’re teaching, learning, guiding and facilitating, but how you design and implement it, and why it even matters. Welcome to Episode 150 of the think UDL podcast, programmatic UDL in professional studies with Erin Lewis. Dr. Erin Lewis is the Director of Professional Studies at Appalachian State University, and she’s a trusted colleague on our newly opened hickory campus. She’s also one of the only women I actually feel short around since she and I are right about six feet tall and she can still rock those high heels that I happen to give up in my youth. For that, and for many other ways that she’s a dynamo on our campus and for our university, she’s attained hero status in my eyes. The Professional Studies major is available to all students, traditional and non traditional, in person and online at App State in Boone, Hickory, and through our online programs. In this episode, we will discuss the ways that this major and program have adopted many UDL design aspects to lower barriers for students, both on the macro level to degree completion and in the micro level, in some of the courses that comprise the major, it’s a discussion of how a university can lower barriers to learning without reducing rigor and by providing a path for learner agency to degree completion and student success. I think you’ll really enjoy listening to the success stories at the end of our discussion as well. Thank you so much for listening to the think UDL podcast. Welcome to my guest, Dr. Erin Lewis, thank you so much for joining me today.

Erin Lewis  02:18

Thank you so much, Lillian. I’m so glad to be here.

Lillian Nave  02:20

I am very excited to talk to one of my colleagues at the hickory campus for Appalachian State University. I’m just really excited about what she’s doing for our campus and for our students. But first, I’m going to ask my same question, what makes you Erin a different kind of learner?

Erin Lewis  02:38

I love this question. I think that for many of us, this is probably not what makes us so different. I think a lot of us probably feel the same way, but I think what makes me a different learner is really the interconnectedness I’ve always seen between disciplines, and I’ve always wanted to work in that space, and has translated into my studies and also what I do now at App State. So for example, even as an undergraduate, writing a senior paper on Queen Elizabeth the first and her speeches, but also her iconography and her images and how it was sort of pulling together, not only what she was saying, but how she wanted that represented. So I would say one thing that makes me a different learner is just that interconnectedness, which I think is so important in everything that we’re doing, not only in our field, but just really, you know, sort of globally, wow.

Lillian Nave  03:33

So that gives me a little insight into why you do what you do, and why you’re so good at it too. Because I’ve gotten the chance to see what you do. And also I think, why, why we’re friends, why we connect? Because my undergraduate major was also a contract major, like it was connecting English and art history and religion and a bunch of other things, history, etc. And I just love how all those things are connected and and it’s really great to see that we’re now offering something that helps our students to really explore that too. So that brings me to our topic for today, and that is a program that we have here that I think it’s really an example of UDL in a programmatic sense, and that is professional studies that you happen to be the Director of here. And so what is Professional Studies?

Erin Lewis  04:34

Professional Studies is a multi disciplinary program which provides a flexible pathway to a bachelor’s degree. So I think one great thing about App State is students have a lot of options and a lot of choices already. So there’s an interdisciplinary program at App State at the Boone campus, which is phenomenal, and Professional Studies primarily is a degree completion program. So it’s slightly different. For an in sort of an interdisciplinary or Liberal Studies type of degree, but it’s really providing students who have some college degree or some college credit, I should say, but no degree yet.

Lillian Nave  05:12

Okay, and is that something you said our interdisciplinary studies that’s on the Boone campus, so that’s an in person, face to face program. It’s a major on the Boone campus, and it’s Professional Studies. Where is that located? How can students participate in that?

Erin Lewis  05:29

Professional Studies is offered at all three campuses, the Boone, hickory and online. So I think it helps provide that really flexible pathway to a degree. And most of our students are online, primarily, and then also, I would say the Boone is our second most popular campus.

Lillian Nave  05:47

Yes, well, we’re the fledgling campus Lillian hickory, and so we’re, we’re on our way, small but mighty. Yes, exactly. And already, what’s interesting to me too is you’ve said flexible twice. So super UDL on that point, and that’s thinking about the pathway, and not just, you know, a lot of my interviews are with faculty members who are trying to make their classes more flexible and take down barriers. But you really shaping this degree program that is taking Universal Design for Learning and or applying. I think a lot of the same principles to how students can learn and how can they can complete a college program and flexible pathway, and then also flexible opportunities. They can join the Boone campus, they can join the hickory campus. They can do it online. And I know there are lots of ways that students can enter this program, so let’s find out a little bit more about this program, because I think people are already intrigued, right? Sure. So it’s different than the traditional college program with one major. So tell us a little bit more about that Professional Studies degree. And then also, I guess the people will be like, wait a second, this is different. This is not the one major traditionalist. What do you say to those people who are like, whoa, this isn’t maybe as rigorous as a history or a biology degree or something like that, on the traditional pathway,

Erin Lewis  07:17

right? And I think sometimes I’m in the program, so I kind of gloss over things that I know I need to be stating. So I think that professional studies is a fantastic opportunity for students who not only want to complete their degree, but we also have seen an interest from students who maybe need to pivot. Maybe they are at the Boone campus and they need to change campuses, or they just need to change their degree completely, and they don’t want to start over. So it’s an opportunity for them to take that prior learning experience, take their prior credits and apply them, I would say, for you know, folks that are hesitant, I certainly welcome that critique, because I think it’s important to recognize that the professional studies, you know, may not reach the same depth as a you know, single subject major, and that’s because Professional Studies requires two areas of focus, so the students so to back up a little bit and talk a little bit about the degree itself, so the Professional Studies major requires two areas of focus, Typically minors, but they can be certificates with at least 12 credit hours. They also have contextual and free electives. So whether that was prior credit the student earned that can be applied in those areas, or if it’s a way that the student wants more autonomy and more curation of their degree, they want to select the classes that are of interest to them, personally and professionally. And so to go back to the question about rigor, I think, as I was saying, professional studies may not reach that same depth, because it’s not a single subject area, but I think it’s important to reframe the outcome. And the value isn’t just in the breadth of the knowledge, but how that breadth of knowledge is applied. And so I think one thing that is really important, you know, as we’re, you know, moving into the 21st Century, as we have, you know, an increasingly globalized society, our challenges are complex and the solutions are complex. And some of those challenges may be food insecurity, health care, machine learning, you know, climate change, these are interdisciplinary challenges by nature, so they are going to require interdisciplinary solutions,

Lillian Nave  09:31

absolutely, yeah, so I don’t know where I came across this a long time ago, this idea of A T shaped education and the T meaning, like the letter T has a, you know, a horizontal and then a vertical, and that the horizontal part is like the general education, like you’re getting a wide variety and a breadth of studies that introduce you to different areas of thinking, which is exactly part. Part of Professional Studies, right? They still have a general education requirement, right, correct? So the only difference is, instead of a longer T or vertical part that goes kind of deep down into methods of history, they’re getting a minor which has almost all of those things and still gets a real breadth in that area, whether it’s history or political science or education or whatever they want, but then they get another pretty deep learning in another area. And so yeah, it has made me think about, you know, how often after you leave college, are you using that, that you know those upper level courses that unless you’re going on for your history PhD, right? Unless you’re going on to some things that are directly in that major, most of our college graduates are working in fields that have some or little to do with their college major. And so it seems like this is pivoting and and looking to be a better fit for a different kind of student, if that makes sense.

Erin Lewis  11:13

It does. I think, you know, the professional studies can really help students provide the depth, which is the connections between the fields and the disciplines, and I think that’s really what we want to see as we are looking at employers. And even just for a lot of our students in professional studies, they are successful already, but they’ve always had a personal goal to finish, and this provides them that pathway. So it’s a way for them to see those connections, and, you know, to apply the learning that they’ve had already and move forward. I think that the T shape analogy is really, really interesting, and I had not heard it before, but I really like it

Lillian Nave  11:56

well, and, and what you just said, too, made me think, you know, in that, like, let’s say I just keep going back to, like, a history major, like, in that kind of major, you’ve got, you know, a lot of deep looking into methods and, you know, historical perspectives and all this stuff. And you have, you have something within that, like you’re, you’re focused on one area of history, and so there is a lot of choice within history major like, if you’re going to focus on American history or Russian history or or whatever, World War Two or or any number of things, African, Sub Saharan African, whatever. But what professional studies does is it’s the student then that’s creating those deeper connections, because they’re connecting one one area into the other, and so they’re building that bridge and making that deeper connection, rather than, let’s say, the curriculum, the professor, the what’s already stated by the university is saying, here’s, here’s the depth we want you to go in. And this allows for the student to say, I’m taking parts of this and parts of this other one, and going far more in depth than anybody has. And I don’t, in essence, I don’t necessarily need the university to say, you know, choose from this set of four courses, instead of saying, I’m going to pull these two things together and make those connections myself. So to me, it is the same level. It’s the same depth. It’s just that there’s more autonomy by the student to make those connections, rather than it being a set structure necessarily by the university. I may be going off script on that one, though,

Erin Lewis  13:44

no sure. I think it’s a point about Prescriptivism and how the student is able to really curate their own degree. So some students have more of an entrepreneurship focus, so their areas of focus and their contextual electives reflect that interest in business or communication. Some students truly have, I think, an interdisciplinary interest. For example, I have a student who their areas of focus are economics and medical humanities. So it’s quite Yeah, quite a range. And then also students who have more social and human services interest, so their minors might be in social work and sociology or psychology, something like that. So it is, as you were saying, a really great opportunity for students who want to curate their own degree. So I’ll say curate and flexible a lot Yes.

Lillian Nave  14:34

And I love those words, as our historian and UDL advocate, two of my favorite Yes.

Erin Lewis  14:40

And so I think that’s also important. I think because UDL, I love UDL, and I’ve worked with you a lot on this and tilt and and all of those things, and I think it’s so helpful, because it’s like you were saying something that we can do in the classroom at a micro level, and then we can also do it at the macro level, at a curriculum. Or programmatic level as well. And I’d be happy to talk through if you think people would be interested in hearing that,

Lillian Nave  15:07

oh, my goodness, you have a better transition than I do. But yeah, I wanted to talk about what, what? What are the barriers, really, that this Professional Studies program like there’s got to be a reason why it came into being just recently at App State in 2023 so what are the barriers that it’s eliminating for students on that programmatic, I guess, level, or the macro level? Yeah, then we can talk about the micro level too.

Erin Lewis  15:30

Oh, I’d love to. So there’s a lot of ways to talk about this, but I think that some of the barriers for the students come from their, you know, their lived experiences and just our current life situation. So for example, the program requires a capstone internship, and that internship is flexible. It can be at a current place of employment, it can be with a friend or family member. It can be with a nonprofit organization volunteer opportunity. And internships can sometimes be a barrier for students, because there can be these requirements that it can’t be with a friend or family member, it can’t be where you work. And the idea, I think, is that we want to make sure it’s something new. The important piece is that the internship is an external learning experience, and how can you ensure that the students are learning something outside of what they already do. And so one way to help with that is in for example, in professional studies, I have students create a growth plan, and they articulate out their learning objectives and their activities with the employer, and then we all sign the document, so we’re all on the same page about what is happening and is it appropriate for what the student’s doing based on their areas of focus and based on their learning. So we don’t allow students to just do what they’re doing. And I think most students, you know, they they don’t want to do that. They want to learn something new. So I think that is like an example that an internship can be a really valuable experiential learning component for the student, but it’s a barrier if the student is required to intern somewhere else when they work eight to five, right? Our students are a lot of them are full time adult learners. They have families, and so it can be more difficult for them, and even the so called, I say so called, traditional college age student, right? Whatever that means. And you know, they also have a lot going on. And so that’s really helpful with professional studies, you know, the Capstone internship, applying prior learning. So one other thing I wanted to talk about is that in professional studies, it’s really important for students to be able to receive credit for credit that they’ve earned, right? So a lot of the community college degrees like the A associate of art, Associate of Science, that translates pretty or transfers pretty seamlessly to a degree, and there is a large population of students who have an associate of applied science. So a technical degree, such as HVAC or welding, but also Business Administration, help, some health sciences, public safety, some of those are AAS degrees, and in the past, they’ve been more difficult to transfer in. There’s not necessarily an equivalent course. So how can we make sure that those students don’t have a barrier? Because they’ve earned a credential, they’ve earned their degree, they should be able to apply that and they’re able to in the contextual electives portion of the program. So it’s, I think, a great opportunity for students who maybe they are in a business and they are looking to take it over, and they’re required to take that next step to earn that degree. And I have seen that quite often as well. Students who are for example, had a student who is in furniture manufacturing here in Hickory. He wanted to take over the business, or take, you know, take up another level in his job, and needed his bachelor’s degree, and so he was able to do his Capstone internship at his place of work, learned about the operations side and and was able to finish out his degree. So it was a really great, I think, experience for him, and I think it’s a true success story. So that is two examples I can think of that you know how the program tries to eliminate barriers for students, because it’s important for students to be able to pursue the education that they want to

Lillian Nave  19:21

pursue. Yeah, and I’m so impressed by how many opportunities that our students have had. I had the wonderful chance and for good reason to hop into one of your classes. Well, you had a wonderful break in your for good a good break in your professional life. And I got to see where your students were with all of their internships. And I noticed too, it was especially helpful for many of our athletes, and that seems to be a big number of students, because there are some barriers of. That, strangely enough, our own, you know, our own universities put on our students, sometimes with how much time and commitment they have with a sport, that then, how could they actually participate in a nine to five internship? Right? That with if they are training and going and participating for our university like so these are traditional college age students, and there were some really great opportunities for some of our athletes too, that were kind of outside of the box. So is that something that it seems like you’ve got a lot of personal relationships to help kind of fit students into something that, and as I’m remembering a baseball player. So it’s a baseball related field, but it also was flexible enough that, you know, it’s not that, well, you have to be in an office for a certain amount of time, but it’s, you know, it could be something over the summer too, right,

Erin Lewis  20:55

right? And I think that can be another barrier at the programmatic level that we have to think about which is, what are we trying to achieve by having certain policies in place? So the growth plan is one example of a policy I mentioned to help make sure that students are obtaining a strong, rigorous, sound learning experience. And in professional studies, students are required to find their own internship sites, but we are happy to help them, and we have a lot of resources through our Career Development Center, through our, you know, faculty and students, you know, and that. And then, you know, on that side of it, it’s just saying, if you do have, like, an internship experience, for example, I have had student. I had a student who worked at an alpaca farm, and she learned how to make yarn and dye it and, you know, sell it. So she was using her general business area focus, you know, through her general business minor. So with student athletes, for example, I have a student athlete this semester who is working with the n, i L, the name, image, likeness coordinator at App State, and has a really fantastic opportunity with marketing and social media outreach. And so I think I want to say all that because there is no one internship experience in Professional Studies. It is driven by what the student is interested in and and to some extent, what’s available to them based on their constraints of time. But every semester is always something new, and it’s always very, very different. I also have had students who are doing, you know, volunteer work in schools. They have had done, you know, different business ventures and opportunities. Just really, it runs the gamut of what they can do.

Lillian Nave  22:40

Yeah, it’s so it was so interesting and also very useful. And, I mean, this is something that I hear a lot out outside of academia, which is like, well, what are they going to use the degree for? Right? What? How useful is that? And is it a waste? I mean, that’s a criticism that’s coming at higher ed lately. And yeah, and look at how useful this is. Like, it seems to me, every major should have some sort of internship. Like, how do you use this stuff that you’re learning in a real world situation? Or, how can you apply that knowledge and not, of course, most majors don’t have that, but I’ve seen how really helpful that is for our students. And a lot of times, I know when I had the chance to do an internship, pretty much during, like a winter term, I found out I didn’t want to do, you know, a lot of things. I was like, No, I am not going to work with preschoolers, even though I thought I wanted to do that, I learned a lot about what I didn’t want to do. And, and so this is such a great, I think, a great part of the program, because they’re in a safe place, really, and they’re learning what they’re good at, or they’re learning what they you know, might be open to them and and is there some prohibition, or can they get paid for an internship as well as earn credit? Or is that an either or situation

Erin Lewis  24:11

for Professional Studies? I encourage all employers to pay students. It’s not meant to be volunteer work. It’s not a requirement to be paid, but I certainly leave it up between the student and the employer. I would say 95% of our student interns are paid something. So it’s very rare actually, to have a student who isn’t paid anything, not even a stipend. And so I think that helps allow the employer you can expect more from the student, and this student can also have more, you know, skin in the game. One of the requirements in the Capstone internship is that the student is responsible for creating a project, and it is a project that is meant to benefit both the employer and the student. I explain it as if the employers always wanted something done, but maybe they just didn’t have the time or bandwidth. To do it, whether that is a policy manual, whether that is some sort of special event to put on, the intern takes ownership of that. And so that’s a way, I think, for students again, to find that usefulness. I think your your comment, though, about, you know, internships, I think, yeah, I think a lot of people will ask, What can I do with professional studies? Like, what does this mean? But a lot of times I think I’m an English major twice over. So also have, you know, I have that had the same, hey, criticism, if you will, or same, same concern. But I think this particular degree gives an opportunity for students to to have some sort of external learning experience of their choosing. The great thing too, about the internship, like, like several other programs, there is an opportunity to earn credit based on the number of hours that you work. So if you need more hours to make it to that finish line, you can use your internship as a way to build up that academic credit and gain more, you know, experience in whatever field you’re in, or, you know, job you’re in, and so I think that is is really good. Another thing I wanted to mention just about the internship is students have an opportunity to, I think, really reflect, and I think that’s really important in UDL, and just in general, reflection is so key, and they have an opportunity to reflect weekly. They also give a final presentation where they’re reflecting on the entire experience. And sometimes it is like how you said, I really don’t want to do this, and I’m glad, I’m glad I only took 10 weeks to do this and not 10 years to do this, right? And so I think that that is super, super important for for an internship, they also can complete the internship in spring, summer or fall, right? There’s no sort of you know barrier. And when they you know, because I think we see that often in classes, oh, well, you have to do it this semester, or you’re not going to be able to do it until next year. And that, that is, I think, another barrier that I think is important not to to have the internship does require students to be seniors and to have their junior level writing course complete, and there, I think, good reasons for that. We want to make sure that they’re about to complete their studies before embarking on an internship. So all that to say, I don’t want you know folks listening to think like there’s no policies or rules. It’s just sort of whenever they feel, you know, ready the students, whenever they’re feeling ready to take on an internship. Because I think it’s just important to reflectively think about why policies are in place and what purpose they serve

Lillian Nave  27:33

exactly, and it serves the purpose of the student learning which, yeah, which is amazing. And yeah, I don’t think the people that listen to my podcast are gonna Yeah. They’re there. They’re like, yes, student centered, yes. We’re gonna do that. I think we’ll see. But, and I did notice that there were some students in their internship that was one credit, because they’ve done so many credits, but they still had to complete an internship which was longer than, you know, a one credit course would have been, but they still had to complete it. And then there were others, I think, up to 10 credits, which was a much longer and sustained and a lot of hours in order to do that. So it again, flexible, something that’s really, really helpful for the student and helpful for their learning. And then I did see a lot of those assignments about what have you been learning, what have you been doing? And it’s not just go do this, and if you finish, you get a grade. It’s a lot of also taking stock of what they’re learning, how they’re employing their skills, what they’ve like, how is it matching up to with their growth plan, all those sorts of things that it makes it a really valuable experience. I’ve seen,

Erin Lewis  28:54

I think so. And I think too, the other thing that is important in an internship is really the interconnectedness between the university, the employer and the student. So I mentioned the growth plan, which everyone signs off on, and then I appreciate you for taking over during my maternity leave, because you had to grade a lot of these things as well. But you’re right. It’s not just, Hey, good luck. Yeah, let let me know it’s really meant, I think, to be a cohesive experience and a really interconnected one like I mentioned. So the other pieces of the program include midpoint evaluations from the employer and the faculty supervisor, so we can check in and make sure things are going well. There’s also the final evaluation of the student by the employer, but also the student evaluates the employer site at the end of the internship. I think that’s really important as part of giving and receiving feedback. In addition to some of the other components of the the internship, you know, course, component right, which is where they’re earning the the academic credit,

Lillian Nave  29:57

yeah, it’s just I’m. It’s really great, and the more I learn about it, the more I wanted to have you on the podcast to talk about how this really is a flexible, student centered, learning focused degree program. And I know that there are other universities that have some of these Right, right? And then I’ve told people, I was like, in Colorado, it’s like, you guys, look at this. This is really cool. It seems to be a really important addition to a university arsenal of ways to reach all of their students. So anyway, I’m, I’m a big fan. I’m a big fan of you in particular. And so one other question. Well, two other questions. So the first one is about, we talked about the program level, but you’ve also you are, not only do you run this program, you also teach a majority of these courses, yeah, and you have a lot of UDL in your courses to eliminate barriers for students. Because you do know your students. We’ve talked about we have regular, traditional students. We have athletes. We have a lot of competing demands. We have non traditional students. We have students online, fully online in Boone, in Hickory. So what are some of the things that you have the design features of the classes that you teach in this Professional Studies program that you use to help bring down barriers so students within the course find that flexible nature, but also can focus on their own learning rather than stumbling blocks that often happen In a course.

Erin Lewis  31:40

Well, I have you to thank for the help with, you know, UDL, until, like I mentioned, and really helping me polish a lot of the assignments I had. I think that there are several things that I do. So I teach the Capstone internship course, and then I have a foundations course, foundations of Professional Studies, and combined, I have about 100 students this semester. And since the past semesters, I’ve always had, yeah, anywhere from 50 to over 100 students. So it’s important to, like you said, meet the students where they are. And in addition to the kind of post traditional, non traditional student or traditional student or traditional student, I think that kind of also speaks to we talk about the five generations in the workforce. Well, those five generations are in these classes as well. So some of the things that I do to help eliminate barriers for students in the classroom are really, I think, just trying to make sure that that connection is there. So for example, I have a help. I need an extension, Google Form which I found online somewhere, so I can’t remember who like posted it, but like they were generous enough to say this is the Google Form I use. So I modified that, and basically it’s a Google form that students are able to fill out, rather than I get the email last minute. I need an extension. Or can I turn this in late? They can fill out the Google Form, and then they’re required to answer the question, such as, what is the assignment? You know, who are you? What is the assignment? And also, when do you plan to turn it in? Because I tell students be honest. You know, don’t tell me two days if you think it’s really going to take until next week, like I can work with that, and then you don’t have to ask again. They also are required to answer, you know, do you want my help? Yes, no, maybe. And they also can. They’ll also be asked, you know, do you need any other resources, such as community resources, tutoring, support, etc? And so I typically say, if you don’t hear from me, you’re good to go. I would never ask them, like, why they can’t turn it in. I just trust that they’ll take the time they need. And then, you know, I and if folks are worried, like, I really don’t see an abuse of that, like, it’s not like one student is turning it in 10 times. There’s a couple students who may do it two or three times, and at that point we might have a bigger conversation. But it is also nice to have in a Google form, because then I can see how many times it was used by whom. Things like that. I think it’s also important to have multiple formats for submissions. So for example, the weekly activity reports and the Capstone internship, which are reflective in nature, are written. But I also provide an opportunity for students, if they prefer to record themselves and present it, they can certainly do that because they’re still getting the content down. And honestly, I think presentations and talking are just as difficult, if not more so, than writing some things down. But that’s an option as well, also because of the students who have less familiarity with Moodle as you learn some of these, you know, learning management systems. I think it’s really important to have a Start Here module, which I think a lot of instructors do now. And one thing I’ve done with my Start Here module is I have a series of practice assignments, and so it’s basically demonstrating like. Yes, you can upload in a PDF, like I’m asking for this specific format, and I make sure that it’s the only format accepted. Or yes, you can take a quiz, and those practice assignments are breadcrumbed so that they have to complete them in order. The first one is the syllabus, so they have to at least click on the syllabus before any of the other assignments will open up. And so bread crumbing is, I think, a great tool to use as well to just ensure that students are following along. And if, if they are kind of trying to jump around, which is, which is totally fine, they at least can have a sense of what the content is, and they can go through it and it’s not counted as a grade. They get feedback, so they get the practice of it, but it doesn’t count towards their grade. So that way, if they are having trouble, how to, you know, post to the forum. It’s not a penalty. It’s really, again, about that, that learning experience. And then finally, again, I think it’s important to have those weekly reminders. The weekly reminders are, typically, for me, Mondays, but sometimes it’s sort of a Friday recap and like, let’s look to the future. Occasionally, like maybe a Wednesday motivation, especially as we’re here at the middle of the semester, I think that weekly reminders are really great for students as well. And then I was also thinking that in the Capstone internship class, they have a weekly discussion. So in the semester, everyone takes a turn in being a leader of a discussion. So they have to pick the article or or they have to pick the text. It can be an article or a video or podcast, etc. They have to come up with the questions, and they have to post and lead the discussion, and, you know, respond to classmates, keep the conversation going. And I also ensure to send out a reminder. Hey, you know, just so you know, your, your your topic is due next week, you know, make sure that you send that to me for approval. It’s, it’s mostly just to make sure that they’ve given enough content for the questions. It’s not so much of I approve. Oh, you can use this or not, or make sure that the topics the same. But I think that that is also important thing to do as well, you know, to try to give those weekly reminders. And again, I say this, as someone who has 100 students, so certainly it, it has to scale up to your class size, but it has worked so far, and I was able to do it. I will say, with the weekly assignments, the weekly discussion posts, I don’t let students pick the weeks, because then I find like, no one wants to go first, so I just tell them, you know, hey, Lillian nave, you’re going after me. You know, I always do the first post. I do the first one, and I kind of explain, and I mirror what I want to see in terms of the content. But then I’ll say, okay, Lillian nave your next week, and then, you know, John Smith your your following week. You know, I just kind of assign it that way.

Lillian Nave  37:46

That helps with executive functions. All of those help with executive functions for our students. And I also have to say your tilt assignments, you’ve mentioned that a couple times, tilt is transparency and learning and teaching are just on fire. You give a purpose, a clear task, and then the criteria for success. All of those are absolutely fabulous, and that’s really helpful as well. So yeah, you’ve got lots of things within those. And I should mention all of your classes that you teach are asynchronous, online, so that is always tough, like students get lost, and so that’s why, I think the those things that you do, like the weekly reminders and the help I need, the extension those, it’s just so very clear, and we need that, and the students need that if they’re kind of managing everything else, it’s just really helpful. It takes down those barriers, the executive functioning barriers, the organizational barriers. Is really, I think what makes that helps to make your program so successful is because of that really well organized micro level as well. Okay, so I think we’ve got a pretty good understanding of our Professional Studies program, and so it only started in August of 2023 when I got to meet you when our campus opened in Hickory. What kind of success stories do we have so far?

Erin Lewis  39:11

Yeah, so the program started in the fall of 2023 with 50 students already. So we had a lot of students had interest in the program. And I think I mentioned it before, but again, these are students who maybe want to finish their degree, or they need to change their major. That was really what we saw, mostly those that first semester. And then, as the program has grown, which is now over 180 students in 2025 we do see a number of students who are looking to have more autonomy and how they proceed. So a lot of the students we see are juniors and seniors already, but we do see a few first year students as well, which is really exciting. And so the student success stories, I think there’s no just one. I’ll just talk about a couple that have stuck out to me, but the. I think every single student is, and really graduate of the program is, is just like such a success in themselves. But I have a student that I’m thinking of, and she’s a degree completion student. She was working as an art teacher in a private school, and wanted to finish her degree at App State. She had, I think, like a lot of students, I think a lot of us too maybe resonate with the story where we didn’t really know what we wanted to do, and we did several different things in college, and then we were maybe overwhelmed, and life just took us in a different direction. And I remember her telling me, though that before finishing her degree, if she ever had to go to somewhere like near Boone. She would purposely drive around Boone. She would not want to go through Boone because it was, it was kind of hard for her to go back. And so she finally, she took the leap. She was an online student because she was outside of Raleigh, and she finished her degree, and she just always talked about how, you know, the ability to, you know, intern with an local organization that she was part of, you know, her ability to apply the coursework from her areas of focus to her current job, how she was able to have this degree to then negotiate for higher salary. I mean, all of the right, all of the things that kind of came, you know, kind of came together. And she was also had, I believe, a general business area focus, because she was certainly an on, like a serial entrepreneur. She had multiple entrepreneurship side hustles, if you know, she was hustling. She really was, and so she was just such a wonderful student to have, and I’m so, you know, proud of her. I’ve also had students who I had a student who did their internship in the Outer Banks where they live, and they did a cyber security area focus. And so they turned that internship into an offer of full time employment. And so just really, like, really great. And then I think I’ve mentioned to like the student who he doesn’t need a degree necessarily to be successful, but he’s had a personal goal to finish. He has children in college, and I believe one is at App State and so he’s like, I want to finish. I want to be done with my degree. And, you know, yeah, I just think that, like, those kind of stories can really stick with you because of the perseverance and the grit that the students themselves had, and then how, by removing those barriers, the students were supported by App State University to finish

Lillian Nave  42:44

it is, it’s so fulfilling, really, to see these students who are really offered a path that they didn’t know we didn’t have until two years ago, but and didn’t really know that it was a possibility, But they’re seeing that they can really lean into it and learn so much and accomplish so much if we just, in essence, just sort of get out of the way of these students and let them take charge. They become expert learners. They become they have that learner agency, which is the key word for universal design for learning is that we want our students, our learners, to have agency and be purposeful and reflective and resourceful and authentic. And it’s like, I mean, in some days I’m like, everything should be professional studies, like we shouldn’t even have other majors. Okay, I know overboard on that one, but it’s really just a great program. So I’ve learned so much from talking to you over these last two years, and I just I appreciate what you’re doing for our students, for our campus, and wow, 50 to 180 that’s what we are right now. Huge. What a huge program I know. So thank you Erin, so much for sitting down to talk to me about how UDL can be applied, I think, programmatically, and thank you for doing such a great job on Professional Studies here at App State.

Erin Lewis  44:14

Oh, thank you so much, Lillian, and thank you for having me on I just have to say that working with you and really our community here at App State is just really a special place, so I’m very grateful to be here. It is, it is, it’s a really special place. I like it.

Lillian Nave  44:27

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of The think UDL podcast. New episodes are posted on social media, on LinkedIn, Facebook, X and blue sky. You can find transcripts and resources pertaining to each episode on our website, think u, d, l.org, the music in each episode is created by the Oddyssey. Quartet Odyssey is spelled with two D’s, by the way, comprised of Rex Shepard, David Pate, Bill Folwell and Jose Cochez. I’m your host, Lillian Nave, and I want to thank Appalachian State University for helping to support this podcast. And if you call it App-a-lay-shun, I’ll throw an apple at you. Thank you for joining I’m your host. Lillian Nave, thanks for listening to the think UDL podcast.