Welcome to Episode 156 of the Think UDL podcast: Math Choices and Contract Grading with Tracey Howell and Trina Palmer. Dr. Tracey Howell is an Assistant Professor of Mathematics and Dr. Trina Palmer is a Professor in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at Appalachian State University. In today’s conversation we discuss several UDL interventions in math courses including contract grading and various choices you can give your students in math courses. We will discuss the benefits and types of contracts you could use if you implement contract grading as well as student reaction to contract grading. We also discuss the use of technology and opportunities for choice in math classes and how these were received looking at student feedback. Trina and Tracey have graciously shared their slides from a presentation they gave on this topic and you’ll find it in the resource section just before the transcript on this episode’s webpage at ThinkUDL.org.
Resources
Find Tracey Howell and Trina Palmer on LinkedIn or via email at howellth@appstate.edu and palmerk@appstate.edu
See their slide presentation for more information: Designing Inclusive Math Courses for Learner Agency
Transcript
34:34
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
UDL interventions, contract grading, learner agency, math courses, technology use, student feedback, real-world problems, engagement strategies, STEM education, teaching methods, student motivation, flexible grading, authentic assessments, learner variability, professional development.
SPEAKERS
Trina Palmer, Lillian Nave, Tracey Howell
Lillian Nave 00:02
Welcome to think UDL, the universal design for learning podcast where we hear from the people who are designing and implementing strategies with learner variability in mind. I’m your host, Lillian nave, and I’m interested in not just what you’re teaching, learning, guiding and facilitating, but how you design and implement it, and why it even matters. Welcome to Episode 156 of the think UDL podcast, math choices and contract grading with Tracey Howell and Trina Palmer. Dr Tracey Howell is an assistant professor of Mathematical Sciences and Dr Trina Palmer is a professor of Mathematical Sciences at Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina. In today’s conversation, we discussed several UDL interventions that they used in their own math courses, including contract grading and various choices and technologies you can use to give your students choice and flexibility in math courses, we will discuss the benefits and types of contracts you could use if you implement contract grading, as well as student reactions to the use of contract grading. And we also discuss the use of technology and opportunities for choice in math classes and how these were received. Looking at student feedback, Trina and Tracey have graciously shared their slides from a presentation they gave on this topic, and you’ll find it in the resource section just before the transcript on this episode’s web page at think UDL dot, O, R, G, as always. Thank you for listening to the think UDL podcast. Welcome. It is great to have two colleagues from Appalachian State University on the podcast. Thank you for joining me, Tracey Howell and Trina Palmer, thanks for being here. Nice to be here. So great. So you’ve done some great UDL work in your mathematics classes, and I love being able to talk about UDL and stem and so before we get into those specific interventions that you’ve done, I’d like to ask you first, what makes you a different kind of learner? And Tracey, I will start with you. No, thank you.
Tracey Howell 02:34
I think what makes me a different kind of learner is that I really need to connect what I’m learning to the real world. I’m not someone who just memorizes formulas. I like tackling messy, real world problems that make me think creatively and to use different tools. When I can see how something applies outside of the classroom, that’s when it really clicks for me.
Lillian Nave 02:56
So you have to have authentic applications, is what you’re saying. Definitely, yeah. Otherwise, why do it right? Okay? And Trina, how about you? What makes you a different kind of learner?
Trina Palmer 03:08
Well, so this is I feel like a hard question for me, because I was successful in traditional lecture classes. I also never thought of myself as a learner until I became a teacher. And so because of this, I think it’s important to encourage students to think about themselves as learners. I also consider myself a think, to talk person, as opposed to those who quote talk, to think. And I like having the space to process ideas and think about how what I’m learning connects to what I’m good at, and then through experiences, I’ve learned that students think and process in so many different ways, which is why UDL principles are so important to me.
Lillian Nave 03:50
I like that you said you are a think to talk versus talk to think. What’s an example of that? Can you just tell me what you mean by that?
Trina Palmer 03:58
So I actually have my students do read about both those types of learning, I guess because we work in groups, some students talk the entire time while they’re processing, and for those like me that are like to process First, can sometimes get overwhelmed by that. So understanding the way you process. And some people just like the quietness and really think about it themselves first, and some talk about it while they’re thinking. So those two kind of styles
Lillian Nave 04:32
I see, okay, great, and I appreciate that you recognize not everybody’s going to be the same way, right? So absolutely, you need to have options. You need to have flexibility for your students, so your talk to thinkers and your think to talkers can both be successful. Yes, okay, so I was really interested about your both of you presented at a at a recent University of North Carolina Symposium on teaching and learning and. And I was privileged to be able to see the slides ahead of time. So I wanted to talk to you about what you talked about to other faculty in the rest of North Carolina at this symposium and Trina. I think I’ll start with you, because you were able to employ contract grading. And I wanted to ask about that, about what’s your definition, what’s contract grading, and why did you decide to implement this in your particular course? And we’ll go from there.
Trina Palmer 05:32
So traditionally, contract grading is just a system where students have a say in how their final grade is determined. And traditionally, at least from the research I’ve looked into this, has meant more of by completion, like you might have 10 essays, and if you complete eight of the 10, that might put you in the B bucket instead of the a bucket. So you can kind of decide, as a student, you know, ahead of time, what what bucket you’re going to aim for, I guess so, instead of a one size fits all grading scheme, students can either create individual contracts, or sometimes the class can collaborate to develop one together. And I’ve been thinking about contract grading for really long time, but couldn’t decide how to define what quote successful completion meant in a math class. And then one semester, my students were complaining about how picky the online homework grading system is. Uh huh, yeah, even though they get three chances to do it, they just didn’t. Again, you make one little mistake and it’s you’re wrong. And the student asked, Could this, could the online homework not count in my grade? Could he just have his test count the grade, which I don’t hear very often. Usually they’re afraid of the tests, but that’s when I was starting to think about, well, maybe this isn’t right for everyone. And so what I did is, instead of doing successful completion, I gave them a range for how they wanted to weight certain aspects of their grade. So each student chooses kind of their their weight for the categories, okay?
Lillian Nave 07:09
And but you determined what those ranges were, and then they could go from, you know, whatever, 10% to 30% or something, whatever it was, yes, okay. And what class? What class was this in?
Trina Palmer 07:23
I did in all my classes, so two asynchronous calculus classes and then a face to face linear algebra class.
Lillian Nave 07:32
Okay, excellent. So I love that it’s actually this was this kind of a student problem, or a student issue that somebody brought up, and you’re like, I’m going to be really, totally responsive to that. You figure out something that’s great. So what are the benefits the types of contracts, and can you give an example or describe what a grading contract for calculus might entail?
Trina Palmer 07:57
So the benefits, again, the research says benefits is it promotes student agency, boosts motivation, reduces stress and aligns assessment with the individual strengths of the student. The students feel ownership over their learning because they get to shape how they’re evaluated. In some sense. Again, there’s mainly two types that like the student centered contracts and the community centered, I still felt like community centered, that would not hit fit well for me, because I probably wouldn’t have said anything if the class decided. So I let my calculus class choose again the weights so they had participation, the online homework system, small weekly written assessments, midterm final and so I gave them a range for each of those, and they got to pick any integer value between in that range and a head out of 200
Lillian Nave 08:54
Look, they’re doing math while they’re doing this,
Trina Palmer 08:57
something didn’t quite get there, but, And you know, they didn’t fill out the survey with with their percentages, I told them, you know, this is percentage that I will give you if I don’t hear from you, most of them did it so a student who is stronger in the homeworks can choose to weigh that homework better, or choose to weigh that Homework more. And I found more students did that they don’t trust themselves in tests. There’s a whole lot of test anxiety out there, yeah, so that was an overwhelming response. So they like, Oh, I get to weigh my test less, even though I started this because I had a student that wanted to weigh them more. Oh, really, overwhelmingly they wanted to do that so it really reduced a lot of their stress, because they could weigh things in a way that benefited them.
Lillian Nave 09:47
Yeah, they’re getting an agency there, like that’s that’s not something that I hear a lot from the STEM fields. Is that a. Agency. You know, a lot of times it’s very inflexible, a lot of policies. I mean, there’s a lot of inflexibility all over the place, but it’s often those really hard percentages. It seems this is like a little follow up question about you still, though had some guidelines, like you still had those percentages about you couldn’t just say everything’s participation right? So you still had the overall maintenance about they’ve got to be proficient in all of these different areas. You just let them kind of do a sliding scale as to how much or where their comfort level was, even though you were still asking them to be proficient in, you know, participation and in these weekly things, and then the they still have to kind of perform on a big test, right, that kind of thing, yes.
Trina Palmer 10:53
So just an example, in the linear algebra class, they had an application assignment, and they could weigh that any, anywhere between five and 15% and I talked to them about it like, if you really don’t want this to be part of your grade, you can choose 5% and now you know the highest you can get is a 95 in the class, but that’s your choice. I mean, I don’t want to weigh anything zero, because that means it’s not important to me, and they’re all important to me. So nothing was obviously zero, but things were some things were small enough to where they could choose not to do it and it wouldn’t be that devastating.
Lillian Nave 11:26
Yeah, great. Okay, so this is, like a really, a bit of a back and forth, a bit of a give and take. You were still, it’s not free reign. Some people were like, contract grading means they can just sort of like, decide what’s important to them. But no, you’re still deciding what’s important, correct? Yeah, and they get, they get some agency and some choices there, even though they do have to demonstrate their skills in a multitude of ways.
Trina Palmer 11:52
Yes. And can I add something else?
Lillian Nave 11:54
Absolutely, that’s what we’re here for.
Trina Palmer 11:57
I I’ve found that over the years I have assumed wrongly that students all want A’s, and that is is not true, and I think it’s important to recognize that our goal is to help meet them, help them achieve their goals, yes, and that they have to communicate what their goals are. And I think this contract grading helps me see where they want to be based on what choices they make. If that makes any sense, it does.
Lillian Nave 12:25
It does. And I’m right there with you. I will just have to say too you mentioned when you were talking about your like, different kind of learner and like, I don’t think I’m that different, because I really worked well in the traditional system, and I did too. And I also thought that the only goal somebody would have is to get an A, is to be perfect. And there’s some issues that I have right, that looking back, right? And it wasn’t until I was well into a teaching career that I had that revelation that you just mentioned, is that not every student is there because they love math, right? And they are there to, like, be a superstar in your class, no, no, no. Or art history, or, you know, first year seminar. I know most of them don’t want to take my class because it’s required and anyway, and maybe they’re there to kind of dip their toe in it. A lot of times they’re there because they’re required to take a math or whatever the class is, and so their goal is just, maybe even just to survive, to get a few skills, to demonstrate some proficiency, enough to move on to whatever their next interest is, which may or may not be in our subject area. Yeah, that was a huge concept that I never even thought about, like we don’t. I didn’t learn that in graduate school, that people might not be interested in what you have to say, or might have different goals. So this is a great way to match the students goals with really, with what you’re trying to do. Because if you’re at odds with the students, then it’s so frustrating. I find, yeah, when we’re like, when I was thinking, doesn’t everybody want to get an A in this class? And then, no, they didn’t, and therefore my whole structure wasn’t really helpful, correct? Yes, okay, all right. So what about student reaction? I mean, you’ve talked about how the data tells us this is a good thing for students, I can definitely intuitively see it. But what was your student reaction when using contract grading in your classes?
Trina Palmer 14:28
So I will say, you know, I surveyed them at the end to get their their feedback. And initially, like in the beginning this semester, when they picked their weights, they were a little bit worried, and I know that caused a little bit of stress, because this is new to them, and they like, what about the wrong thing? But by the end of the semester, it was overwhelmingly positive. You know? Said the research shows thing, it reduces stress, increases motivation. I didn’t see as much of the increased motivation as much. The reduced stress was was huge, and again, overwhelmingly positive that it reduced stress for students, they really appreciate, you know, one bad exam by weighing exams less was not going to crush them. Yeah, and they felt more confident again, just because they could align things in a in a way that they felt matched their their strengths. I do find it interesting that I compared their final grade to what I would have done, like the weights that I would have chosen, yes, and majority of them would have done better with what I picked, not by a significant amount, just by a point or two, and so I just find that interesting. But one of the comments was that they were they were surprised how well they did on the exams, so when they were reflecting at the end, they were just surprised that they had done as well as they had, and every single person who completed the survey indicated they would prefer to use a customized grading scheme in the future.
Lillian Nave 16:02
Oh, great. So yeah, a huge, I would say that’s an overwhelmingly positive answer to your survey there. Yes.
Trina Palmer 16:11
I mean, it’s, it has made me want to do it again. And you know, it’s a little bit of work in the beginning, getting the spreadsheet set up, individualized for every student. But once that’s set up, it’s not so bad, and it’s worth it.
Lillian Nave 16:25
Yeah, so the so one follow up on that, it was, did you use the learning management system to set up grades? Because that sounds I feel like that would be hard, hard. Or did you What did you do in order to have that really specialized and individualized grading system. So in as you learn, yeah, our Moodle system, our learning management system, yeah,
Trina Palmer 16:51
I just had the categories. So I made it so the final average was not visible to students, because it’s gonna be different for every student, but they could see the category totals, and periodically through the semester, I would send an announcement out, saying, here’s how you can calculate your average right now. And so I put into my own spreadsheet the weights that they chose. And then at the end of the semester I took I downloaded from Moodle, those the categories, totals, and I put them in and just use the spreadsheet to calculate their grades.
Lillian Nave 17:28
Okay, so that’s not terribly onerous. It was not okay. It was just that small change is pulling it into the spreadsheet to do different percentages, but you didn’t have to do. There’s interminable clicking that happens when I try to set up a grade book and try to change it. So okay, well, good. That’s a great success story. I appreciate that with a lot of learner agency and you know, students really feeling empowered with their choices. That’s great. So what I loved about this presentation, too is that there were multiple ways that you guys were using UDL. And so now I want to find out a little bit more about engagement Tracey. And wanted to know about how you chose to engage students, and you did that using technology in a math class. Can you tell me more about that? Sure.
Tracey Howell 18:21
So in the spring, I had two quantitative reasoning courses. These are the students that don’t necessarily have to take another math class. This might be the only math class they have to take. And I’ve noticed over the years that a lot of times these students are the ones that come in and they’ll say things like, I’m not a math person, which to a math educator, I’m like, No, we’ve got to get rid of that. We got to get rid of that idea, right? So I had always done, you know, the traditional, you know, online homework quizzes, that kind of thing. And we’d always done labs. But what I did this spring was I took two of the labs and I kind of redid them that they could use whatever technology they wanted. I didn’t, you know, give it to them and say, using Excel, do blah, blah. I just gave it to them to see what they would do. You know, for example, in one project, they worked with a data set from 100 bears. They had all these different measurements for 100 bears, and this big spreadsheet that I gave them, and what I wanted them to do was figure out what’s an observable characteristic that they could use to predict the weight of the bear. So we, you know, in Okay, we have bears, you know, all over the place. And so, yeah, like, if I look at the bear, I could probably guess how wide its head is. Is that the best thing to use to predict how much it weighs? Or do I need to look and see how long it is if it’s standing beside the dumpster so I can guess it’s this long? Is that a good predictor of the weight? So that kind of thing. And then I. Just turned them loose. You know, they used for that one, they use spreadsheets. And then they also loved going over to Desmos. And then they would also use, like, AI, either chat, GPT or copilot, to kind of get an idea of, okay, what should I do? How should I approach this? So I thought that was really cool. We did another one. It was new this semester, where I told them that they were going to be hired to clean the roads after the snow in Boone. So they had a snowplow. We didn’t have, like a team of snow plows. It was their snow plow. And I gave them a street map, because we all know that in Boone, we’ve got some alleys that sometimes have names. So I gave them specifically which streets I was talking about for downtown Boone, but that’s all I gave them. So they didn’t know how big a snowplow was. They had to look up which roads are one way, which roads are four lane, which roads have parking on the side. Then they had to, like, make decisions, are they going to clean all four roads? All four lanes. Are they just going to clean two? Are they going to assume that there’s people parking in the side, and so we’re ignoring that. Could the snowplow turn around? How big was it? Could it turn around in the intersections? You know, just all of those things were like a real problem, a real world problem, and they just had to they weren’t right or wrong. They just had to consider those things in order to, you know, successfully complete the project. And honestly, another thing that was very interesting was they had to figure out how to find the path that they were going to use, and then how to communicate that to me as they turned it in for their assignment, because they weren’t turning in a video, they were turning in a written assignment. So how are they going to show me, go this street, go this street, go this street. So it was really cool, yeah.
Lillian Nave 21:52
Oh, I love it. That’s very, you know, specific to our students who are on the Boone campus, and you were taping this right after the end of the spring semester, which, of course, in Boone is more like a winter semester, because it’s snowy for a long, long time. And this is something that students care about, because a lot of them went to App State, because this is one of the few campuses that gets snow in North Carolina, and here they are dealing with something about, you know, that their daily life, or I have to figure out, you know, here’s something that they’re actually passing by every day, and let’s hope they don’t pass by bears every day. But it is certainly a local issue. Is that, and I love that you said, if you saw the bear by the dumpster, how long it was? Because that’s where they hang out, because we know that’s where the bears go. It’s right to the dumpsters
Tracey Howell 22:43
to get the food. It was better than on the porch. Yes,
Lillian Nave 22:47
oh my goodness, you know, I’ll have to put in the resource section the the little girl that says, Can I pet that dog? But it’s a bear, this little girl wants to pet a bear. It’s no, she thinks it’s a dog. That’s what happens in our parts of the woods, literally. Okay, so, yeah, so already this is engaging. This is much better about, you know, than widgets in a widget factory or whatever. Those you know, old questions were that from a long time ago when I used to take math. So you’re already engaging the students because you are using, you know, lots of, I think, local, authentic assessments, which also maps back to your answer as to what makes you a different kind of learner. And Yeah, can you tell me more about the the choices that you provided, or is that all in the technology that you mentioned?
Tracey Howell 23:43
Well, actually they were a bit apprehensive at the beginning, because it was such an open problem. They’re used to being told, use Desmos to do this, use Google Sheets for this. And so I think there was a little bit of apprehension right when they first got started. And then one thing that had always bugged me about the bear lab was, you know, you had all of these measurements, and they were doing linear regression, and so they were trying to use which one had the best the line of best fit, and the way the numbers come out is the chest girth is the best approximation, or the best number to use to approximate weight. So that’s what the numbers say. So I modified the lab a little bit, because Chester is not observable. If the bear’s standing out there by the dumpster, you can’t really guess that. So I actually added in questions to give them a chance to notice that what the math was saying as best wasn’t going to be the best thing in terms of real world application, right? Not observable, really. So that was really different. I mean, and like, said it wasn’t right or wrong, but I did add that question in, so I think they found that to be interesting. And kind of the same thing with the snowplow. Lab. It was once they made sense of the problem and the magnitude of all the things they had to decide. I think they enjoyed it, but I think it was a definite learning experience for them. It engaged them much more than some of the traditional labs I’ve done,
Lillian Nave 25:16
yeah, oh, absolutely. I mean, I’m I’m more engaged too. I’m not even taking the class. Like, I kind of want to know, I want to know what happens there. Can I
Trina Palmer 25:24
add something on it? Absolutely. So I also feel like, you know, Tracey gives him the choice of how to even solve the problem, like, so it’s a choice of what variables do you want to consider. And I realize they may not see that as like a choice, but it absolutely is to decide. You know, again, what she said, do you do two lanes or four lanes? So all those decisions, she didn’t make them, and they can solve it using those or not, and it is still correct.
Lillian Nave 25:56
Yeah, yeah, this is so this is using the math brain like and then I feel like this is also giving that kind of agency, where those students that came into your class Tracey, that thought, I’m not a math person, and they’re in this, yeah, they’re in this college class, that’s probably pretty intimidating, and here you’re giving lots of agency and choices for them to see that they really can be the math person they can’t. Well, you’re not one or the other. You just try. And we have a growth mindset, and we can get better at it.
Tracey Howell 26:30
In the conference on Monday, the keynote speaker was talking and was talking about how so many employers expect students to be proficient with technology, and that they expect that they would have learned that during their time at our universities. And so in a way, I was like, this is perfect, because it gives them a chance to play. They spend so much time being told not to use this or not to use that. And so I was really just having fun with here. Use anything you want to see. If you can answer my question,
Lillian Nave 27:06
yeah, it’s really great. And no problem, by the way, it might be that your dog has seen a bear in the background, and maybe that’s what’s going on. Just kidding. So the student feedback. So did you hear how this was received by the students, or how it went for you?
Tracey Howell 27:26
Yeah. I mean, they seemed pretty happy. They we spent a couple of days in class on both of on each of the labs, and so they were working together, if they chose to. We had a classroom that had those four tables together so they could work. Yeah, they wanted to. They just seemed really more interested and engaged than I’ve seen them on some other assignments. And I think they, I think they liked the flexibility, but I think they liked that it was actually a real world I mean, I know we don’t want the bear on our porch, but,
Lillian Nave 28:01
but it’s a real world problem. No, it’s like, you’re gonna pick up
Tracey Howell 28:04
the phone and call mom and say, hey, there was a bear. You’re gonna want to say how big the bear was. So, you know, they showed a lot of creativity, and it was a very interesting, interesting few days in class. I was really pleased.
Lillian Nave 28:20
That’s great. Yeah, there are just so many ways that we can infuse our courses with universal design for learning strategies. And I really appreciated that here’s two different ways that two different math professors have gone about making a class more engaging, really concentrating on learner agency, and I think also attacking that idea about especially math anxiety, or students who don’t feel that they’re very good at math or are afraid of their own weaknesses that might bring them down, you’ve offered some really good ways for students to counteract that. So Trina, next question is for you, what about if anyone wants to know more about what you’re doing, to include UDL in math courses, if people are like, you know, I’m a math professor, I would like to do something like this. What do you suggest?
Trina Palmer 29:17
Well, of course, Tracey and I are always happy to share and talk about what we’re doing and can reach out to us directly.
Lillian Nave 29:24
Okay, we’ll put that in the resources section, how to reach out to you both.
Trina Palmer 29:28
Great. Thank you. I would also really encourage STEM faculty to attend, not necessarily stem focused conferences or workshops, and then just talk to others. So I feel like I’ve learned the most by just being open to these ideas, even when I can’t see how that would possibly be done in a math class, for example, in 2014 I’m sure you don’t remember this, I took the course redesign, and I think I was the only STEM faculty member in it. And. And you talked about group quizzes, yes, and I’m like, can’t do group quizzes. Nave, to do that, right? I did it, and it was awesome. So, you know, I feel like when I’m hearing things and like, I really don’t see how that fits. But if you just let it sit and ruminate and just hear these ideas, whether it’s stem or not, just being open to them, those ideas will come.
Lillian Nave 30:26
Yeah, I appreciate that you just, you said, going to, like, conferences or workshops, you said, but there’s conferences too, if we’re lucky, to get, you know, professional development money and it works. You know, sometimes you’re supposed to go to just your discipline conference, but there’s lots of free conferences out there too, things that are teaching focused, and whether it’s the beginning of one’s career or you’re kind of in the doldrums of the middle, having that spark, like when you said The that was 2014 Wow, the group quizzes. That was, that was the thing that made teaching, like, come alive for me, was like, I had been doing art history the same way over and over again, and I was like, this is, like, I don’t think this is great. This is, you know, the they were the ID quizzes, where you have to, like, look at a slide and say that artists and the period and the date, and that’s just because it’s always been done that way. And when I started to think about that collaborative quizzes, or group quizzes, which was part of they had some individual they had some group things, and they had to, like, build things with Legos and stuff to demonstrate their knowledge, it totally turned my teaching around, and I got so much joy from it. So it was really, yeah, like the beginning of this big UDL journey for me was, was something like that. And so I do appreciate that you’re saying, you know, it’s not just in your don’t go to your math conference only maybe every other year or or try out these other things that you might not think it would actually worked. But look at you, it worked and it changed. It changed the way you see things. And I know you guys presented at what is our North Carolina conference. There’s a Teaching and Learning Conference for all faculty and staff to go and and learn about what other folks are doing in North Carolina. And I know that there are lots of even small colleges will have conferences, or New York system, California system, that there’s lots of opportunities for that. So do we have? Is it possible to put your slides to for our resources on this page?
Trina Palmer 32:38
Sure, great.
Lillian Nave 32:39
So people can see what you’ve done and see that even just a small change can become kind of a big change that helps your students so well. Thank you both very much. This was really great. I love it. It’s super concrete, too. That’s what I also love about my my STEM faculty is like, here’s exactly what I did, and here’s the data, but it was easy to do and implement, and you really were creating what UDL says we want to create, which is learner agency in both of those cases. So thank you both very much for being on the think UDL podcast. Thanks for having us. Yes. Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of The think UDL podcast. New episodes are posted on social media, on LinkedIn, Facebook, X and blue sky. You can find transcripts and resources pertaining to each episode on our website, think, u, d, l.org, the music in each episode is created by the Oddyssey quartet. Oddyssey is spelled with two D’s, by the way, comprised of Rex Shepard, David Pate, Bill Folwell and Jose Cochez. I’m your host, Lillian nave, and I want to thank Appalachian State University for helping to support this podcast. And if you call it Appa-LAY-shun, I’ll throw an apple-at-cha. Thank you for joining. I’m your host. Lillian nave, thanks for listening to the think UDL podcast.