Welcome to a special edition of the ThinkUDL podcast LIVE from the 6th Annual Big 12 Teaching and Learning Conference in the Texas Union Building here on the campus of the University of Texas at Austin.
This episode is comprised of three short interviews with librarians who have incorporated UDL into their work with faculty at their campuses. Both Porcia Vaughn and Laura Tadena (Ta-DAY-na) are at the University of Texas at Austin and my third conversation is with Melissa Wong, who is at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champlain. All three have important points to share about integrating UDL into courses with the help of your institution’s librarian. They are ready, willing and able to help! Let’s talk about accessibility, UDL integration, and information literacy with our experts today!
Info Literacy – Porcia Vaughn, Laura Tadena
University of Texas at Austin, Inclusion of librarians in the process and help with Universal design in the college classroom and what it looks like
Info literacy – Laura Tadena
Former K-12 educator, see a lot of barriers, observations-what we can do in info literacy sessions, to collaborate with faculty from a librarians perspective, online materials, resources to underserved students, and how to make materials accessible
Info Literacy – Melissa Wong,
Instructor, school of info science, Univer of Illinois, urbana champlain, teach online
UDL success stories, policy example, classic UDL, giving students choices in assignments,
Library science, graduate in library science,
University of Texas, Austin, Department of special education
Establishment of inclusive classroom environment, create a space where students feel safe to be the learner they are, disability or language..make a safe space
Jeannette Herman, University of texas austin
Asst dean in undergraduate studenies
direct bridging disciplines , 16 college bridging 19 credit hour certificate, college bridging programs with experiential programs, interships, creative projects, designed to let students make the most of the opportunities, ownership of education, independant research
Decolonizing the curriculum—Andrew Dell’Antonio
University of Texas at Austin, teach in Butler school of music, associate Dean in fine and applied arts. UDL in music history to open up different kinds of presentation and evaluation, modes of engagement, and how UDL is pathway to decolonizing the kind of work we do, not just access and content wise, but opens up questions about the way we educate, UDL as a place of practice to question the way we do pedagogy and curriculum.
[Lillian] Welcome to Think UDL, the Universal Design for Learning podcast. Where we hear from the people who are designing and implementing strategies with learner variability in mind. [Music] I’m your host Lillian Nave, and I’m interested in not just what you’re teaching, learning, guiding, and facilitating; but how you design and implement it, and why it even matters. [Music]
This episode is comprised of three short interviews with librarians who have incorporated Universal Design for Learning into their work with faculty at their campuses. Both Porcia Vaughn and Laura Tadena are at the University of Texas at Austin, and my third conversation is with Melissa Wong, who is at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. All three have important points to share about integrating UDL into courses with the help of your institution’s librarian. They are ready, willing, and able to help. Let’s talk about accessibility, UDL integration, and information literacy with our experts today.
Welcome to a special edition of the Think UDL podcast, live from the sixth annual Big 12 Teaching and Learning Conference in the Texas Union Building, here on the campus of the University of Texas at Austin. And, today I have Porcia Vaughn, who is at the University of Texas Austin here, and Porcia can you tell me a little bit about your position here and what you do?
[Porcia] Yeah, I’m the bio-sciences librarian here for the University of Texas at Austin. I work mainly in the library department, which we call UTL (UT Libraries), but I support any of the bio-sciences programs, so anything from undergraduate to faculty PI researchers and beyond. Its information literacy for undergraduates, how do you find or use information within the discipline, and then its also the kind of output publication, dissemination of your work research so that we can have high impact dissemination of the work that’s happening here at UT. So, I’ve got a big spectrum of things that I’m trying to accomplish in my role.
[Lillian] Wow, that is quite a lot, and you also have an interest in Universal Design for Learning, and I was hoping you could tell us a bit about the inclusion of librarians in the process to help Universal Design for Learning in all of those areas that you were just mentioning that you have a hand in here.
[Porcia] Yeah, so Universal Design, I have a–its close to my heart for a number of reasons, but what is important is that having the right experts at the table, having the people that really know the skills and competencies of students at any level that they’re coming into our institution, and librarians can do that for information literacy. So, we can be that expert at your table when you are designing curriculum, when you’re designing assignments, when you’re designing different individual activities to meet student needs. So, if you’re really focused on student-centered activities, we want to be able to bring in that information literacy part that–do they know they have an information need, where are they going to go to find that information, what are some of their current practices, and then to evaluate that information and be able to re-use that information, right? Those aspects are really important. So, in Universal Design, how do we take into consideration what’s happening in our environments, what are the students doing and needing and how do we work around that, what are the skills they were coming in–literacy skills coming in from their pipeline to our classrooms. We have some of that background knowledge because librarians talk to each other, we engage with each other at all different levels, and then we also have the opportunity to see the bigger picture of campus, so the librarians is one unit on campus that serves every division across campus. Whereas if you’re in an academic department, you’re serving those students. So, where do you find creative learning activities if you’re siloed within your department? Librarians can help you with that. We have a whole teaching and learning department, and then we have our subject specialists, so I’m a content expert that I know you’re trying to get the students to retain this content, well also they need these skills to be able to work throughout their classes and these lifelong skills, so trying to universally think about what it is we’re accomplishing across campus.
[Lillian] Wow, so you said you have librarians–not just in the content, but also in teaching and learning? Wow, and that’s in addition to your center for teaching and learning?
[Porcia] Yes, so they live and breathe in our home–in the library. Librarians–I feel like I’m waking up there in the books. We love our dusty books. But the fact that we have the Singer Learning Institute on campus, and we have the Faculty Innovation Center on campus, those are all great resources. But, we’re an additional layer that’s also specifically looking for information literacy. We want students to find good, useful information that helps them make decisions to be successful in the course, but also successful in their life. There are a number of us that are going to be trying to find information for health reasons, and have to make health decisions. So, if we teach proper literacy skills, health information literacy for undergraduates, they’re going to be successful in other careers and academia. But, to teach those skills, we have to think about how we design the content. One of the challenges I have is I usually come in as a guest lecturer. I don’t get the students the entire semester. I don’t get to build the rapport and the trust and the understand where they come from individually. So, I have to learn to do that quickly, and trying to find as many techniques to engage the students in the content within the short time that I get to experience working with them. So, that’s a challenge that I have, and librarians have that challenge.
[Lillian] Right. Do you have maybe an example that you could talk about of how you are maybe engaging with this problem of, I only see these students once? How can I make it engaging and how can I apply this Universal Design for Learning to the library information literacy?
[Porcia] Yeah, so what I strive to do in every opportunity is to work closely with the faculty throughout the semester, or spend a semester learning what they’re doing in class, how are they going about it, what are some of the techniques that they’re using to gain the students’ trust. Once I have that kind of foundation, what I want to do is come into the classroom and either try a flipped classroom design activity where they’re taking pre-tests, they’re reading, they’re getting some idea and critical thinking about what’s going on with the topics we’re trying to get them to engage with. And, once they come into the classroom, can I do more active learning? Can we have more discussions, can we get more facilitated group readings happening where the students are driving the bus and I can do a guide on the side kind of thing. And then have the faculty come in as the content expert, right and correct some of those misunderstandings based on the content, not on the development of the threshold concepts that we’re trying to move the students through. So, really working with the faculty on getting an idea of what’s going on in the classroom, designing activities that are engaging the students in multiple types of activities around learning how to evaluate literature, right? Do it on your own, think pair share activities are always great, I feel like if you have a good facilitator, you can really get the students engaged in discussing. I also use a lot of humor and comedy in my classroom, right? So, facial expressions when they say something is biased, what does that mean? I talk about key words, I use marijuana as an example, that always gets them going, right? SO–but, its important–the key word is important depending on the field that you’re in. So trying to find things that will make them laugh, break the tension, break the ice, and understand that I am an advocate for their learning and their success. I’m not here to judge whether they’re successful in the course. Its some of the strategies I use to be successful in entering in that space for a short time.
[Lillian] Yeah, sounds like that’s going to be transferable skills, right, that’s something we all want students to have is that information literacy, and one other question I have: have you found that students are coming in with a really wide range of abilities on this?
[Porcia] So, that’s the interesting thing. I’ve been at other institutions, private, mid-size institutions, another large public institution in Texas, now here at the University of Texas at Austin, and the schools itself–its really interesting to see the gaps in students. My previous institution which was a Hispanic serving institution, largely transfer student population, and what I found was their gap between the students was much more narrow because they were coming in–they were in that same pipeline. An institution like this, where we do have a lot of high achievers, but those achievers come from a variety of districts, and what is learned at those districts creates this huge bell curve that, you know, you can’t teach to the weaklings, because there’s a handful of them, you have high achieving students that are there to get the information and get out the door quickly, and you have this in between that you’re trying to work with. And that gap is so much larger in biology that I’ve had to face, and trying to figure out what are activities that are going to be appropriate for all students, and how do we turn it over to them so that we have that mix of students engaged with each other to build each other up. They’re different type of learners, there are different types of experiences, and how to include that in the conversation. Give me examples of when you’ve evaluated materials and it gave you the authority to speak on this topic. Something like that where they can talk about their different experiences definitely helps kind of shorten, narrow that gap that I’ve experienced.
[Lillian] Wow, and what would you give as advice as a librarian–what advice would you give a professor or somebody that does have the class the whole time, they’re the content expert, but they want their students to have this really important information literacy part? What’s the advice that you give to a professor?
[Porcia] Make sure you know who your librarian is, OK, that’s the first thing is definitely–reach out to your campus librarian and you’d be surprised how many skills they have, and what we’re interested in, and what our background is. I have a variety of colleagues from all over the education process. I know a number of colleagues that have their PhD in Education, or an Ed.D , they’re really familiar with the background and the aspects of literacy, so literacy from a young age all the way through adult learning is really important to us. On the kind of next note, when working with your librarian, come with very specific questions: “I want my student to learn how to evaluate material, or evaluate primary resources. What kind of ideas do you have for me to gauge where they’re at, what kind of ideas do you have to assess my learning outcomes in terms of information literacy.” The more direct the questions are, the better we can help you, and we can help you refine that question over time, but at least engage with us so that we can help you build rubrics, that we can help you look at how you’re doing your activities around information literacy. So, that’s my big kind of–we’re here to support information literacy, not all of your teaching goals, but information literacy specifically.
[Lillian] I know that when I–I have a librarian at my institution–and came to her with questions, I must say she schooled me completely on how broad my question was and how I needed to narrow it down and really pinpoint it and she was so helpful in saying “what really you know do you want them to get at,” and I thought “well, I thought I knew,” but I have to ask a lot more questions.
[Porcia] Yeah, discovery of information is hard these days. Its grown exponentially, so finding it online is a feat, even if, you know, google says you’re feeling lucky, well, I don’t know about that, but, you know–and I love, I am–librarians all have this, I think, someone will come up “oh I want the blue book with the gold words that said something about education.” We can find it, we’re savvy searchers, so how do we get other people to be excited about these activities? And, we want the faculty to know that, hey you’re the expert in the content, not going to fight you on that. We know that literature exists, we can help you access that, but trust us that we’re the experts in information literacy and how to assess those outcomes, because we’ve been framed to do that, we study that, we breathe that, we provide scholarship on that. So, reach out as a partner, not as “oh you’re just academic support.” We’re the same level, we have the same goals and outcomes and measures that we want to meet campus-wide. Student success has now been part of our mission statements. Research success is part of our mission statements in libraries, so it really takes a collaborator, not somebody who’s asking for assistance and hoping to get the right answer. So, the attitude and personality is going to change how we collaborate with you.
[Lillian] Wow, and that’s all for the betterment of students, so, what great advice for our listeners to hear. Thank you so much
[Porcia] Thank you for having me!
[Lillian] Also at the Big 12 Conference here is Laura Tadena, who is also at the University of Texas at Austin, and Laura can you tell me and our listeners a little bit about your role here?
[Laura] Yeah, thank you for having me, I am one of two inaugural diversity resident librarians, it’s a new pilot program to the University of Texas library. And in my role, I rotate through different areas of academic librarianship, and learn from each unit and my second year is an intense immersive year-long project-based learning. And so, this year I’ve been rotating through different areas of working as a liaison, I’ve also worked with digital initiatives, and I’m moving on to teaching and learning.
[Lillian] Great and this is an inaugural program, is that right? What is it called?
[Laura] Yeah so it’s a pilot program–it is–we are the first diversity residents, and the program is designed to get the under-represented identity groups into academia, because librarianship typically tends to be, you know, the same type of people, so this is a great way to get a diverse group working with our diverse community, and create a long term commitment to diversity.
[Lillian] Oh, great, well thanks. So, you have your hand, then, in a lot of different things. And, I’m particularly interested to find out about your role using Universal Design for Learning in the university with respect to things like online materials, resources for underserved students, especially how to make those materials accessible and sort of some of those other things that you’re doing that incorporate Universal Design for Learning in the university libraries.
[Laura] Things to think about, we tend to think about–have what they call “one stop shops,” and so we only get to see some of our students maybe one time per semester. And so, thinking about how we can make those experiences meaningful using a range of materials. So when they come into class, some concepts that we’re playing with is using a reverse model where it’s a flipped classroom, and so students have access to information ahead of time. And this is important with students that may have a larger digital gap, or are maybe missing some foundational skills, but still are really smart, but tend to not know how to ask a question or ask for help. And so having materials like tutorials or link to our research guides can help students catch up. They can also close in some of the gaps in information, and then it also provides links to other resources so students can continue to learn and explore within a particular area of a research topic. And so we have research guides that offer specific suggestions for databases, we also have books and resources within those guides that’ll link out, as well as standards that students can use if they’re within a certain discipline.
[Lillian] So, are those research guides things that can live on the professor’s website, or LMS, or whatever you’re using here?
[Laura] Right, yeah, so at UT we use Canvas, and within most of the Canvas portals, students have access to a tab off to the side where they can click on it and it says “research help,” and within there, it typically links out to a research guide created specifically for their class or for their subject. And in this guide, it’ll have, again, the databases and other materials there. If they come to the library for one of the one stop shops, they may not get that information, or sometimes its so much information so fast coming at them that its not enough time to process. Things that I like to do is I like to maybe do screen casts of what I do in class, and students have options to go back and review videos because not everyone processes the same, and then also, within that there’s the ability to find a librarian, and so students have a direct contact to a person that they can ask for help along the research process.
[Lillian] That’s fantastic, so you’re providing multiple ways for folks to get in contact with you , and also, what happens if a students is sick that day, right? So, then they’ve lost it, and that used to be the old model: “well, now you’ve got to go figure it out yourself.” But, you’re providing lots of ways for the students to find and access that material and then work with it or learn how to work with it.
[Laura] Yeah correct, and most importantly, the biggest takeaway is for them to realize there is a librarian, there is someone that can continue to help them, and everyone comes in with different levels of skills in regards to research and information literacy, so having these online tools is helpful for students so that they have a place to go for additional help.
[Lillian] Oh, that’s great. Have you–in your time in the university here at Austin–found where the kind of similar gaps are, or things that you want to pinpoint in the future, or what process you might want to put in place to help with those gaps?
[Laura] One of the things we don’t have a lot of are online tutorials. And so some of the other institutions have a series of video tutorials where they’re accessible, like on YouTube, and they’re captioned, and so, if the
[Lillian] Oh fantastic. One last question: do you happen to have any success stories or examples of anyone who said this was really helpful, or that you’ve had some feedback on some of these initiatives?
[Laura] Yeah, so this year, I worked with some students that were working towards being educators in the elementary sector. And, we went through some databases that were specifically for evaluated resources and developing curriculum design to support diverse communities. And in this activity, I made sure to provide different ways for students to interact with me. So, if they weren’t comfortable asking questions in front of the whole class, we did a poll where they could answer the questions within their. In the powerpoint, I made sure to have visual representations of everything that I was talking about, and links where students can go back and refer to the different databases that I was referring to. And then at the end of the powerpoint, I again provided contact information and shared that slideshow that I used with the students that was then uploaded into their Canvas portal. And so students had access to everything that I went over in class, and had takeaways to go back, and if they came across something that they didn’t understand, or couldn’t remember how to do, they had my contact, and then they also had links to everything that we used.
[Lillian] That’s great. Thank you so much for talking to us at the Think UDL podcast.
[Laura] Thank you for having me.
[Lillian] At the University of Texas at Austin today at the Big 12 Teaching and Learning Conference, I have with me Melissa Wong, and Melissa can you introduce yourself and where you are in your position there
[Melissa] Sure, I’m an instructor in the School of Information Sciences, what we usually call the “I School,” at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
[Lillian] Great. And you also include Universal Design for Learning in your teaching, and you teach online, is that right?
[Melissa] I do. I teach in an online master’s program, so all of my classes are online. Some of my students are formally enrolled in our online program, some of my students are on-campus students, but they’re taking my class online because either that’s the only way its offered, or they particularly want to take this class with me, or it fits into their schedule.
[Lillian] Of course, right. So, I have a question about UDL success in your realm and in your teaching, and I hear you’ve got one about policy that you’d like to share.
[Melissa] Sure. So one of the policies that I have is around late work. So, very often, as faculty we have hard and firm deadlines, and if students can’t meet that deadline, then there’s going to be a penalty of 10% a day, or maybe late work isn’t accepted. And, many, many years ago, I was really inspired by Ken Bain’s book “What the Great College Teachers Do” [What the Best College Teachers Do]
[Lillian] I love that book, too.
[Melissa] So, fantastic right? Around late work, and realizing that, all of us have times at work when we don’t get something done, often for good reasons. Other things happen, so my policy in my class on late work is essentially, this is the day its due, you know that, if you can’t have something in on time, you simply need to communicate that to me, and I will give you an extension. And, so students are just responsible for emailing me to say “hey, I know this was due last night, I wasn’t able to get it in,” I encourage them to have a good reason or tell me and so sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t, and essentially then I just say, tell me when you think you can have it done, and I go from there. And I feel like that is very Universal Design, because it definitely accommodates students who might have a disability, right, a chronic condition that they have a flare up, they can’t get something done, without necessarily even having to disclose to me that they have a disability, and along the way it also, I think, serves a lot of other students as well, because many of my students are–they work full time, they’re older, returning adult students who have families, but it’s a policy that works for everybody, and I love it, its so freeing for all of us.
[Lillian] Yeah. Now do you–do you put a limit on how many times they can do that? Do you get one or three or something?
[Melissa] I don’t put a limit on it. I do say if it becomes a chronic issue that we might need to have a discussion about it, or I will cut you off, but interestingly it has not been a problem
[Lillian] That’s great.
[Melissa] Yeah. I do work with graduate students, and I do think that maybe because they are a little bit more mature, I have some trust there that they’re making good choices, right.
[Lillian] And you are treating them like adults, too, so that builds that trust, and that’s a really great relationship to have, so–and that’s really good for learning.
[Melissa] Yeah it is, I think that’s a great point, that it does start us with a relationship. I trust you to make decisions , to communicate with me, and the same way I say to them, if you are at work, and you had something due, and you couldn’t get it done, you would need to communicate with your committee chair or with your supervisor, that’s what we’re doing here. I did see in a talk I went to this morning, an undergraduate professor who gives students two late assignments, essentially twice in the semester, they can simply turn in a late assignment, no explanation needed. So, I think, again, for faculty who maybe want to ease into a more relaxed policy, that’s a way to do it.
[Lillian] Yeah, and again that “no questions asked” too, that really frees up students, and it could be because of work, it could be an emergency, and it could be something totally unexpected or it could be a chronic condition, but we don’t have to know as the instructor, right? But its that trust that’s being built there, that’s really fantastic.
[Melissa] Yeah, I even had a student who emailed me at the end of the semester with her accommodations letter, and said “oh, you’re been more than accommodating, but I thought I’d just send this to you anyway,” and her accommodation was that she could sometimes turn in late work for a flare up of a chronic condition. But it was really funny, she literally sent it to me after all of the work had been done for the semester .
[Lillian] Oh that’s wonderful, that means you have designed a wonderful course for all of your students, you know, so that they can be successful.
[Melissa] I hope so. Its worked really well for me.
[Lillian] That’s great. You also have something about student choice in assignments that I was hoping to hear about as well. Can you tell me more about that?
[Melissa] Sure. So, one of the core ideas with Universal Design for Learning is to have multiple means of action and expression. So, different ways that students can show what they’ve learned, and then, of course, also, in a lot of UDL principles, there’s the value of student choice as a way of engaging students. So, in a number of my courses, students have–can make choices about what they want to do. So, in some assignments, they choose what their topic is, because I am teaching students who are going to be professional librarians, I have students going into a lot of different career fields, so I have students who are going to be public librarians, and academic librarians, and they want to be archivists, and so for instance I have an instruction course where everybody does what we call an instructional design project, where they essentially design a lesson with learning outcomes and an assessment, and a handout, and within that assignment, they can choose who the audience is, they can choose what they’re actually going to be teaching on, and it gives them a lot of room then to customize it to something that would be realistic for the career that they’re going into, something that they can use as a portfolio project when they go interview, something for my students who are working in the field already, something they can turn right around and teach a couple months later, which is really motivating for them. So that’s–I think–a great example then of building choice in through UDL. The other thing I’ve been experimenting with is learning contracts where students design their own assignments.
[Lillian] Wow, tell me about that.
[Melissa] So, I teach a course on E-learning where students learn to make all kinds of things. They learn to make videos, they can learn to make multimedia tutorials, they learn to make a lot of different kinds of digital learning objects, again, I have students going into all different career fields, so figuring out assignments that worked for everybody was getting really challenging. And so this past semester, I decided to let them pick their own assignments. I gave them about five options or ideas they could pick from, some that I had used in the past so there were already assignment directions that they could just fall back on if they wanted, or they had the option of proposing their own assignment, and roughly saying OK, this is about what it takes to get 50 points of credit, this is about 100 points of credit, propose something, and we’ll talk about it. And then I just had to sort of keep a running list and say these are–I had a date. They had to pick their assignments and get them approved by a certain date. They had 1-2 assignments due at the midterm, 1-2 assignments were then due at the end of the semester, and then I kind of just waited to see what would come in. It was so fun and so fantastic. They made these incredible things, and they were super excited because they were like “oh I want to do this for work” or “I’ve done this before and I want to go to the next step and try this new piece of software” or “I’m going to try to take on this challenging project that I’m really interested in” and it was so great to see the amazing work they did and things that they came up with that I never would have thought of, but they felt were really appropriate for their skill level and their career plans. So that was, to me, the kind of extreme end of learner choice, that was a little scary as a faculty member right, but it was so rewarding in the end.
[Lillian] Wow, how very engaging for the students, and for you. Its not the same assignment that you have to grade over and over again.
[Melissa] It was fun, I didn’t have to grade 25 of the same thing.
[Lillian] Yeah, that’s so much better on both ends of that. That’s really fantastic. And did you–you said you provided some templates or what they could do, and then students could decide to do something like that or they could design something differently?
[Melissa] Yes, so I had–because I had taught the course a few times before, I took assignments that I had assigned for everybody in the past and said OK you can do this assignment if you want, here’s directions, here’s some support for it, or go ahead and come up with your own assignment and just write me a proposal, a couple paragraphs in an email, and then we’d have a little back and forth.
[Lillian] So did you find that a lot of students wanted to do that creative part, or about half and half?
[Melissa] I would say, most students had to do 2-4 assignments, so most people picked at least something from the pre-designed list, and then I’d say most students also picked something that was not on that list. A few students did two completely different things, a few students picked from the list because it fit their career plans, but yeah most students did a combination
[Lillian] That’s great.
[Melissa] It was really–I think it was really engaging, as you say, for them, and also in some ways modeled then professional behavior of what is it you want to do, you have to go out and teach yourself that technology, or do a lit review and figure out what the best practices are, figure out how to do it, and so that to me also really prepared my students to go out into the field and do similar projects.
[Lillian] Wow, that’s really fantastic. What a great way to put Universal Design for Learning principles into your class, and have a really great success story.
[Lillian] Thank you so much, and thank you for doing it at this live conference with lots of noises, you were just fantastic, and I really appreciate it.
[Melissa] My pleasure, thanks for talking to me.
[Lillian] Thank you so much.
[Music] You can follow the Think UDL podcast on facebook, twitter, and instagram to find out when new episodes will be released, and also see transcripts and additional materials at the ThinkUDL.org website. The Think UDL podcast is made possible by College STAR, the STAR stands for supporting transition, access and retention in post-secondary settings, and the website provides free resources and instructional aids based on UDL principles. If you’d like to know more, go to the CollegeSTAR.org website. Additional support for the podcast is made possible by Appalachian State University, where, if you call it Appalachian, I’ll throw an apple at you! The music on the podcast was performed by the Odyssey Quartet, comprised of Rex Shepherd, David Pate, Bill Folwell, and Jose Cochez. Our sound engineer is Tanner Jones, and our social media coordinator is Ruben Watson. And I’m your host, Lillian Nave, thank you for joining us on the Think UDL podcast.